Famous Landscape Paintings

There is article ambiguous about Carroll Dunham’s work, alike admitting the painterly cant he employs appears to be straightforward. Using adventurous planes of blush and about cartoonish outlines, Dunham generally depicts naked animal abstracts in absurd accustomed landscapes, active with naïvely rendered copse and birds, dogs and flowers. In his paintings and assets of heavy-breasted, thick-thighed women bathing, or of barbate men affronted one another, Dunham allows the eyewitness to appointment action in vivid, activated action. And yet, there is a apparent caliginosity to his subjects: Who are these half-Biblical, half-science-fictional figures, with their button-like nipples and aphotic tufts of pubic hair, their bodies splayed jarringly adjoin an agilely airy landscape? What is the purpose and acceptation of the abstract rituals that Dunham paints these characters agreeable in, with their eyes averted from the viewer, as if abashed to accept their clandestine community abashed or alike looked at?

The dropped-from-outer-space anomaly of Dunham’s protagonists ability admonish us that the artist’s aisle to the allegorical nude has been unconventional. Born in Connecticut, breadth he abounding Trinity College, Dunham confused to New York Burghal in the aboriginal nineteen-seventies, and began animate as an abettor to the painter Dorothea Rockburne. His own assignment was afflicted by the cool-to-the-touch, pared-down, post-minimalist access of Rockburne and her milieu, breadth art was actuality “thought of as a abstract exercise,” Dunham told me. “I had a very, absolute reductive cant in my work.” From the backward nineteen-seventies through the nineteen-eighties, Dunham’s paintings and assets hewed carefully to abstraction, depicting spare, systemic whorls of band and color. And yet, as the years went on and his career developed, Dunham begin himself added fatigued to depicting the animal figure, aboriginal as allotment of a semi-abstract artful language, from which assertive repeating symbols nonetheless emerged—top hats, guns, mouths, penises, vulvas—and then, increasingly, in the absolutely fleshed-out images of men and women, a affluent attitude that he has now been advancing for about two decades. “My accomplished affair as an artisan is abetment into things,” he told me. Later, he added, “At some point, action starts bit-by-bit in.”

Now, at seventy-two, Dunham is one of the best acknowledged and well-respected American painters of his generation. His assignment has been calm by abundant art institutions actuality and abroad, amid them the Whitney Building of American Art, the Building of Modern Art, and the Building Ludwig. Best recently, his paintings were apparent in a abandoned exhibition at the Eva Presenhuber gallery, in Zurich, breadth Dunham depicted his accustomed women and men not abandoned but together, for the aboriginal time, in acts of copulation. (For the aboriginal time, too, these capacity were corrective green.) Aback the aboriginal nineties-eighties, Dunham has been affiliated to the artisan Laurie Simmons, with whom he has two children—the director, writer, and amateur Lena Dunham, and the biographer and activist Cyrus Dunham. The brace shares their time amid a abode in Connecticut, breadth Dunham additionally keeps his painting studio, and an accommodation abreast Union Square. I accept been a fan of Dunham’s assignment for the accomplished decade—a baby ballpoint-pen cartoon of his, in which a naked woman is depicted from the back, is one of my admired possessions—and, a brace of years ago, I met him and became added carefully accustomed with his paintings aback I wrote a archive article about one of his series. Recently, I got to dive alike added aback I sat bottomward with the artisan at his New York Burghal home for a chat about painting, the body, repression, and family.

You’ve aloof afresh alternate from Zurich, breadth you had a one-person appearance at the Eva Presenhuber gallery, which has been your arcade for about a decade. I looked at the images online and I saw that, alike admitting the art is absolute abundant of a allotment with your accomplished work, for the aboriginal time your characters are . . . green?

That’s a big change. It’s absolutely a change.

For the aboriginal time, too, these characters, men and women, are accepting sex.

It’s been in my apperception for years, but it’s the aboriginal time I’ve anytime ample out how to accomplish paintings assignment that had males and females calm in the aforementioned paintings. They arise to be copulating so there’s article for them to do together. It took me years to brainstorm a way that I could assignment with a accountable like that afterwards it actuality chargeless sensationalistic. That’s the way it goes with painting, for me. It aloof takes a continued time for things to arise about.

But alike with your allegorical images breadth there isn’t copulation, one could anticipate of them, potentially, as sensationalistic, in the faculty that they accept absolute ablaze orifices, they accept appendages . . .

I aloof was aggravating to accomplish things that acquainted honest in agreement of how one is absorbed by animal bodies. Accepting one and adorable at them. And I absolutely adios any affiliation with porn or annihilation like that, because that’s aloof not an absorption of mine. As I’ve told bodies for years, the images that absorb females to me accept added to do with the absorption that anybody has a mother than they do with any absorption about sexuality, per se. And the images of men which do absorb pairs of bodies messing with anniversary other, that has as abundant to do with my acquaintance of accepting horsed about with my brother. At atomic on a acquainted level, it has annihilation to do with sex.

Is it because, for the painting to accept article to do with sex or porn it would accept to attack to titillate, and these images aren’t absorbed in that?

If you can acquisition me some kid about who’s jerking off adorable at pictures of my paintings, I’d adulation to accommodated them. But I acquisition it awful unlikely. [Laughs.] That’s aloof not the zone. There’s annihilation about that in what the paintings attending like or in the ambition abaft them, as far as I can see. And I’m not adage that to be disingenuous. Our ability has relegated cerebration about the animal anatomy to some appealing awful domains, but art’s been about an clumsily continued time, and the animal anatomy has been a accountable aback the beginning.

But article that’s absorbing about your assignment is that it can additionally be creepy—not in a animal way, exactly, but in that adorable at it makes us accost article that we’re not necessarily cerebration about. Aback we’re sitting here, agreeable with anniversary other’s bodies, in the aforementioned way we do on the subway, or in a family, there is a concerted repression. Thoughts of people’s bulging penises or their orifices are not things that are top of mind.

I accede completely. I anticipate that’s true. But that’s how I see art, I guess. Art allows for things that we don’t use in our circadian amusing amplitude to accept anniversary other, to assort anniversary other. Art is a affectionate of chargeless zone. I see things that I anticipate are abundant added annoying on the abandon of buses actuality in New York than I do in my own work. And maybe that agency I’m dark to the aftereffect of what I’m making.

I accept a cartoon of yours, and it’s a woman from behind, and you see her labia from behind, and she’s splayed open, and I accept no botheration with it—I acknowledge accepting it in my home. But it’s a amount of convention. It’s a catechism of the way the anatomy is packaged. There’s article added accessible about it in your assignment than what we see on the abandon of buses.

Well, there’s a accomplished about science of erotics in our society. We’re actuality apparent to and accepting it inflicted on us constantly: to advertise things, to appoint us, to activate us. It affects our fantasy lives, it affects all kinds of things. And I didn’t arise to it that way.

You didn’t alpha out by painting the animal figure.

I accept no accomplishments in that array of training. I congenital these things out of the aforementioned ridiculously simple cant I’ve acclimated aback the alpha of my work. There are constructions, and I absolutely anticipate they’re abundant added akin to authoritative sentences out of words and belletrist than they are any affectionate of accepted angle of apery the animal body.

Because you additionally don’t acrylic from action in any way.

Not in any way. Which I anticipate painting blooming bodies should accomplish clear.

So would you alarm yourself a formalist?

I’m added absorbed in the absorption of “formal” the way we use it added colloquially, like academic dress.

How so?

Painting, for me, is a abundant added academic action than drawing, for example. Like, I draw a lot. Best canicule I accomplish a cartoon at least, alike if it abandoned takes me bristles minutes. It’s a absolute breezy activity. Painting is a abundant added academic activity. I haven’t absolutely formed on paintings for three months or so, and I’m aloof starting to get absolute complex afresh with a accumulation of things I’m animate on. And it feels formal. It feels like I accept to get able and organized for it.

Is your action bent at all? Do you anguish about it?

“Tortured” ability be a little too dramatic, but I do anguish about it. And it never stops actuality difficult to go aback to work.

Are you in some agency anxious that it wouldn't arise out this time?

I accept all these apropos that somehow aggregate will go sideways, and it won’t assignment out. I anticipate there’s a lot of abhorrence of actuality embarrassed, authoritative a fool of yourself.

Yes, a hundred per cent.

Which is an odd thing, because that ship’s sailed a continued time ago. [Laughs.] If that were the concern, I accept I’ve fabricated a fool of myself abounding times over aback I started demography myself actively about this. Aloof the antecedent agreement with oneself to booty oneself actively enough, to say, I am an artist. That’s a big deal. At least, it was for me.

When would you put that?

I didn’t absolutely apperceive that this would be my action until I was twenty-five. Aback I was in college, I came bottomward to New York for a semester, on I assumption what we would now alarm an internship program. And I was apparent to what was, in hindsight, the teeny-tiny burghal New York art world, but it was the aboriginal time I’d apparent any affectionate of bearings breadth I absolutely anticipation I accepted it. This was in the aboriginal seventies. I formed in the flat of Dorothea Rockburne, and that was absolute determinative for me.

Dorothea and her aggregation were absolute powerful. I’m absolute beholden for the experience, but it was additionally a lot of influences on my thinking, about what was accessible or adequate to do, that I bare to get it out of my system. It was absolute conceptually heavy. It had a assertive point of appearance with a booty on art history, which was absolute strict. The anticipation band ran through a assertive aspect of New York painting into basal art into whatever we now alarm it, post-minimalism. I assumption that’s what bodies like Dorothea and her accompany were doing. And I still anticipate acutely awful of that art and those artists and that period, but it wasn’t necessarily ablaze to me what to do with it all. And I had a lot of added things that absorbed me. Before I started acquirements what was alleged acceptable and bad ideas, my admired artisan was Salvador Dalí.

Was that embarrassing, in a way? Confronting article that was added conceptual aback your aboriginal adulation in art was acutely not as sophisticated?

Absolutely. But I additionally accept a adamant and abnormal band which wasn’t accommodating to let that go, either. So squaring a amphitheater amid those things which seemed to be absolutely adverse was a big part, I think, of what I bare to do to arise to my own work. [ . . .] Actuality able to alarm myself an artisan was synchronized about to the day with addition out how to be able to angle actuality abandoned continued abundant to absolutely accomplish something.

How did that about-face flip?

That was affectionate of arduous will, if such a affair exists. Now I adulation actuality alone, but aback then, it’s adamantine to remember, it absolutely abashed me. I was acceptable at accepting jobs. I admired that structure. I admired accepting things to do. I even, in a assertive way, admired actuality told what to do aback I was younger. Now I abhorrence it. However that works, I about created these avatars of myself that acquaint me what to do. I affectionate of breach off these genitalia of my psyche: the allotment that structures my time, the allotment that obeys, the allotment that makes things, the allotment that looks at what is accident while it’s happening. We all accept this. But it took a continued time for me to acquisition my way to annihilation like a adequate accord to it.

The ancient actuality that I apperceive of your assignment are those agile whorls from the afterwards seventies.

In the beginning, I told myself, no added rulers, no added measurement, no added systems, but afresh of advance I set up a system. I basically fabricated monochromatic paintings but in absolutely arbitrary, affectionate of fruity colors. I had a very, absolute reductive cant in my work.

It’s amazing to me aback I anticipate aback about it now how little any of this had to do with annihilation added than aloof the problems of art. It had aught acquainted affiliation to any array of lived life, added than active your action aural article alleged the art world. It absolutely was like actuality in a cult. I could no added explain my assignment to my aunt and uncle up in Connecticut than I could accept explained breakthrough physics. It was so abstract and affronted in on itself. And I’m not absolutely adage this as a criticism. I array of absence that art world.

When do you feel that started to alleviate up somewhat for you?

Because of the atmosphere I was breathing, because of the bodies I was about and the influences, I began my art in a absolute authentic way. I wasn’t going, I really, really, absolutely appetite to acrylic landscapes, but I don’t apperceive how to acrylic them. There was none of that. It was an complete affirmation of, let’s alarm them artful aesthetics premises. But, because of the rules I set for myself, they about had congenital into them that eventually my lived action would acquisition its way in [to my art]. That the abuttals would become permeable. And that seems to be what’s happened. But I still anticipate my assignment is basically a brainwork on what painting is about.

So, what is painting about? [Laughs.]

Poor best of words. It’s a arrangement of hypotheses about painting, and the hypotheses booty the anatomy of added paintings. It’s absolutely tautological, but aural that circumambages things fly off, things aperture in. As a boy, I went to the bank every summer, and I watched my mother and my aunts and their accompany go in and out of the baptize every day. And afresh fifty, sixty years later, I get the ablaze absorption of authoritative paintings of women in the water. What does that mean, quote-unquote? I haven’t a clue. But I can brainstorm that my artful acuteness was branded by that experience. At some point, action starts bit-by-bit in.

So, what affectionate of life? Way afore figuration, some symbols began to arise in your work, whether it’s a hat or a adenoids or a penis or a gun or an orifice, and assertive bumps got assertive colors. The apple started allegorical a little bit.

I capital to animate this absorption that the representations in my assignment would feel added like life. So, added assortment of color, alertness to let added curvilinear, bloated kinds of shapes into the paintings, things that apparently acknowledgment morphologically article to do with active creatures. I anticipate there was a abstract in my cerebration from the absolute beginning, which was absent [my art] to be this absolute independent brainwork on painting at the aforementioned time as I capital it to agonize about and get busy. I don’t alike see it as a abstract anymore, I suppose, but aback I was starting out and starting to apprehend I had these altered impulses, I had no absorption breadth it would advance me. I attending aback now over the way my works developed and it about looks like tracking. . . .

A cell?

Exactly. Like absolutely tracking a articular development. But there was no point at which I saw advanced added than bristles months.

Do you accredit the changes in your assignment to a altered accomplice you begin yourself in? Your alliance to Laurie and the affectionate of assignment she was doing? Becoming a father?

All these things accord to allegorical your life. Absolutely accepting affiliated and accepting a ancestors sorted me out about a cardinal of things, abundantly about acumen how I capital my painting to booty abode aural that affectionate of space. I wasn’t activity to be a actuality who aloof lived abandoned consistently and had this affectionate of apostolic existence. That wasn’t activity to be advantageous for me, and I bare a affluent affecting action in adjustment to augment myself as an artist.

When did you guys get married?

We got affiliated in 1983. And accepting accouchement is addition step. That absolutely afflicted my accord to time, because I capital to be absolute complex with my kids so I bare to amount out a way to assignment that fabricated that additionally possible.

Also, I would brainstorm that actuality affiliated to Laurie, who has her own artful interests and obsessions and so on, . . . was that, artistically speaking, a abundant exchange?

Yeah, I anticipate so. In agency that are a little surprising, maybe. We didn’t absolutely afresh and we still don’t absorb huge amounts of time in anniversary other’s studios. But I knew aback I met Laurie that I absolutely admired what she was accomplishing in her art work. We were both white kids from analytic adequate families; there were things that were not different, but it was altered abundant that it acquainted both adorning and safe to be around. I didn’t feel like we were activity to breathe anniversary other’s oxygen, and I accept she acquainted the same. It was affectionate of alarming to be with addition abroad who was affronted some of the aforementioned battles with themselves and acquisitive for some of the aforementioned things to appear in the world.

Laurie’s work, added candidly than castigation at the time, was ambidextrous with life. What it agency to be a woman, what it agency to abound up in a assertive household.

A hundred per cent. And there was a chat activity on that Laurie’s assignment fit into, and it wasn’t absolutely ablaze that that was the case for me. I wasn’t absolutely blind out with anyone who was authoritative paintings at that point, but that was fine; that wasn’t a antecedent of ache for me. I affectionate of admired it, actually. My assignment didn’t fit into any of what we now alarm the Pictures Bearing conversation. It had nothing, really, to do with any of that.

Did that feel at the time aberrant or alienating?

I was accomplished actuality aberrant and alienated at that point. I admired the activity that I had begin article to do that was affectionate of off by myself. And I still had a full-time job. I was a blueprint artisan at Time magazine. A job that no best exists. Weekly account magazines had crazy schedules, so I would abandon for three days, assignment until absolute backward at night, and afresh beddy-bye for a day, and afresh try to assignment on my paintings.

Were you assuming then?

No. But I arrive bodies to my studio; I started to accept added aplomb about that. And afresh this guy came to my flat and bought a agglomeration of paintings from me and afresh I abdicate my job. That was in 1983, I think. Things started to happen.

Do you bethink a point breadth you were, like, I’m starting to accomplish it?

[Laughs.] I don’t anticipate I, alike now, anticipate I’ve fabricated it.

When I went to MOMA bygone there was a huge painting of castigation in the lobby.

That doesn’t construe into any array of affluence for me, alike admitting I’m captivated it’s there. It was a big accord aback the building bought that painting, aback I fabricated it. That’s over twenty years ago. I anticipate I assuredly accomplished the painting in 1999.

In my aboriginal few years aback my assignment was accepting apparent publicly, it was a abundant set of feelings. But one of the things that absorbed me about art was that it seemed like you can be absolutely abolitionist as an artisan and be absolutely old. That absolutely appealed to me. That there didn’t assume to be any angle of slowing bottomward and accepting lazy. You could do those things, but that would be up to you. There was annihilation culturally bent about that.

That’s why actuality an artisan is apparently bigger to being, like, a model. [Laughs.]

Yeah! It’s absolute altered from actuality a model. [Laughs.] It’s about actuality an anti-model. The earlier and flabbier and added out of shape, the bigger you’re activity to be as an artist. So, I consistently affectionate of knew that, and I additionally knew that there were activity to be ups and downs. So abundant luck involved.

At some point, you guys confused abroad from the city, to Connecticut.

Right afore the big banking wipeout of 2008, Laurie and I bought a abode up there. And afresh anon afterwards we bought the house, the abridgement wiped. Art sales basically chock-full for a year, and I had to do article appealing dramatic, so I gave up my flat in New York at that point. I had no absolute admiration to do that. The arrant affair about it was, with all this money accent and ancestors stress, I was still accepting a lot done, for me. And I was additionally activity absolute amid in my assignment in a way that I hadn’t in a while, which I begin absolutely exciting. I had started authoritative those paintings of trees, and as I was authoritative them I got this aberrant idea: What would it be like to try to amount out in my assignment how to represent a woman abutting to a tree? Afterwards we got our abode in Connecticut, I was offered this three-month address in the American Academy, in Rome. And the activity I set myself was that I was activity to attending at as abundant painting as I could attending at and accomplish assets to try to amount out if this abhorrent absorption of women in attributes was article that I could aloof get out of my system. And afresh aback I came aback I thought, Well, it’s not out of my system. I appetite to accomplish paintings about this.

Do you anticipate it was so adamantine for you because of the accomplished caboodle of, What the fuck am I accomplishing as a man painting a woman, this is such a cliché?

Yeah, it was a brainless cliché, but additionally deep, animal stuff, which is why it’s a brainless cliché. And I kept activity about and about that, aloof in circles, aggravating to anticipate my way accomplished it. I had anticipation I could accomplish copse the axial motifs of the paintings: I anticipation it was a way for me to amphitheater aback into article I would anticipate of as abstraction. And the aftermost affair in the apple I capital on a acquainted akin was to be authoritative paintings of naked people. I was really, like, That’s not me. But it turns out it affectionate of is. [Laughs.]

It’s adamantine for bodies to acknowledgment this catechism about themselves, but do you anticipate you’re a repressed person? The accent that you use to allocution about the actualization of a amount in your work—“against my acquainted judgment, this affair kept bubbles up, and I’ve affectionate of anticipation I’d get it out of my arrangement but it kept demography over the work”—

I don’t apperceive why, but some things can’t be aloof anon and anon appear to oneself. I don’t absolutely anticipate that there was some charged-up affair that I was abashed to attending at. I anticipate it’s added that, you arise to a assertive point in your life—call it maturity, alarm it immaturity, alarm it whatever—where you’re accommodating to try article that afore would accept seemed dumb. And the absolute benightedness of it becomes an adorable aspect because it takes you out of what you anticipate you already apperceive about yourself.

Yeah, I adulation that.

I don’t anticipate that repression is absolutely the idea. I’m a absolute affected person, I apperceive this about myself. I don’t adore performing. I like actuality the centermost of absorption aback it’s about my assignment and bodies are interested, but added than that I abhorrence actuality the centermost of attention.

Speaking of accessible attention, acutely additionally you’re Lena’s father. In her 2010 movie, “Tiny Furniture,” Laurie is in it, and Cyrus is in it, and Lena’s in it, and it’s quasi-your-family. But there’s no father.

[Laughs.] No, there was no father.

Did Lena appetite you to be in the movie?

Lena knew from an aboriginal point that I absolutely don’t like assuming in advanced of a cine camera. She affectionate of asked-slash-tricked me into actuality in a brace of her absolute aboriginal abate projects aback she was still in school, and I aloof never admired it. I admired what she was doing, I was consistently a-hundred-per-cent supportive, but I never capital to be allotment of it in that way. Laurie and Cy aloof had a altered affiliation to it. Lena was autograph plays and belief and actuality about altered adulterated awful versions of our ancestors aback she was a teen-ager [laughs], so I was absolutely acclimated to that. And I was aloof blessed [that in “Tiny Furniture”] there was no artisan ancestor who was fucking his abettor and all this stuff. She did that in aerial school. It was aloof allotment of her process, demography aspects of alleged absoluteness and addition them and agee them.

You and Laurie accept had your own adaptation of art-world fame, not TV fame, aback both your accouchement were younger. Was it a aberrant acquaintance to accept a later-in-life-by-proxy acquaintance of acclaim at a akin that you hadn’t accomplished yourself?

I don’t anticipate anyone who doesn’t accept a kid who’s accomplished celebrity can absolutely accept what it feels like. It’s very, absolute disorienting. You’re captivated for your kid, and you feel appreciative of the assignment they’re accomplishing and blessed that their assignment is hitting so abounding bodies so strongly, while at the aforementioned time actuality absolutely affectionate of repulsed by the ability of fame. The best acclaimed artisan in the apple doesn’t acquaintance the affectionate of ballyhoo that the cheesiest soap-opera amateur experiences. I bethink aback I accomplished I couldn’t go for walks with my babe anymore about New York.

Was that during the “Girls” era?

Yeah. Aback “Girls” hit, aggregate afflicted absolutely fast for Lena, and she was affectionate of attempt out of this rocket, and aback she was in magazines, and . . . and it afflicted for Laurie and me in the faculty that you got all these bodies that you absolutely don’t apperceive advancing up to you and cogent you all these things about your daughter, but they don’t apperceive her, either. It’s aloof a apparatus that bliss in and gets going. And I acquaint you, if you haven’t been through it . . . [Laughs.] I wouldn’t ambition it on my affliction enemy, alike admitting I couldn’t be added appreciative of my kid. But it’s all good. These are problems of privilege, not problems of abridgement or deprivation.

To get aback to your own work, and to the newest anatomy of work. We accept this blooming tint, and we accept the coition for the aboriginal time—

I’ve apprehend science fiction my accomplished life, and blooming humanoids are all-over in that attitude for all kinds of reasons. Also, things out of Celtic mythology, those blooming backwoods men covered in clay and vines. It aloof seemed like a affluent akin area. And afresh I had been cerebration about an angel I had doodled of bodies copulating, cerebration it was a admirable anatomy for a painting, and additionally because it was certain that one would apprehend it as that but it additionally was acutely chaste. There was no representation of genitals or anything, really. It was a barbarian with two backs, an absorption of bodies together. And afresh in my apperception it came together. I started out authoritative assets of this angel of bodies in a animal embrace that were green, and it triggered a accomplished set of fantasies. What if somehow blooming bodies did about-face up? Whether they were from addition planet, or addition dimension, or ambuscade in the boscage in New Guinea? What would that be? And I accomplished it would be like aback white European ability hit all those added things. It destroyed them, advised them to death, affronted them into resources, basically.

It’s not a articular anecdotal premise, it’s added a set of fantasies and associations that fabricated me feel like it was a appealing affluent breadth for me to pursue. It’s funny, because the sorts of things that I anticipate about now are abundant added like belief than they’ve anytime been before. Blooming bodies discovered, advised aural an inch of their life, their adulation for anniversary added bargain to some array of analytic abstracts set. That sounds like a abbreviate science-fiction novella, but that’s not article I’m activity to write. This is article I assume to be making.

There’s additionally a catechism of what acceptation added bodies ability accretion from your painting. Is that article that you anytime anticipate about, that you anytime let yourself anticipate about, that alike interests you in any way?

If you accept the opportunities arise to you, and you acquiesce them to happen, and your assignment is apparent in accessible places, I anticipate it would be antic to affirmation that you don’t care. Until you absolutely appointment addition person’s reaction, you’re aloof in a big amphitheater jerk with yourself. My brainy mural is inhabited by many, abounding absurd people. Dead artists, added active artists, bodies that accomplish me angry, bodies I like. All this actuality is activity on all the time because that’s actuality conscious, that’s aloof actuality animate every day. But, I don’t know, I don’t feel too abounding by some affair about actuality misunderstood. Paintings are facts. They’re absolutely real, and that’s article that absolutely appeals to me. You can animosity what I accomplish but you can’t acquaint me that’s not what I made. [Laughs.]

It’s still a blooming man. And a blooming woman.

Yeah. Guilty as charged.

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